Rampal: Godman, Murder, Forgery and More.
It is very interesting/irritating/annoying/disgusting/disenchanting and a lot more to see the headlines on news today. Another god man is in the rumbles and the headlines caption the following
Well, what comes to your mind when you see this? Not respect that is for sure! I am amazed with the number of god men in India and even more amazed to see the number of followers. Looks like it is the onset of a new trend or maybe a rehash of the old one where the blind beliefs and superstitions have gone beyond the gods and now transcended to the messengers. I am not sure how or why these people have become so popular and more than blaming these god men, I think I have a bigger bone to pick with the followers. What makes people like these have hundreds and thousands of followers? Is it food? Security? Safety? Or the scarier reasons – Faith? Belief? Whatever these reasons are, I really feel that there is something about an institution like this where the number of people gets uncontrollable.
And now, talking about this particular godman!
Who is Rampal?
He is a self styled god man
He worked as an engineer and later resigned, he was charged of being “careless” at work
Follower or the so called incarnation of Kabir
and some more elite information about the man, more of which can be found on his website: Jagatguru Rampal
Why the issue?
Rampal has been charged of multiple issues- Murder, forgery, assault, criminal intimidation, Arya Samaj activist’s murder, and so on. I would really not like to go in details of the same, but you can find a very detailed article about the crimes this man has been alleged/convicted/charged of.
reference:Cases against Rampal
The issue today?
The court issued a notice for the godman to appear and naturally he declined and probably as expected quoted medical reasons. Reasons aside, he was supposed to appear on Nov 5 and it is already 19 Nov and when it comes to court, I think it is the highest body in the country and not even the PM is above it. It is unreasonable for a godman or an individual to act in contempt of the court and naturally an arrest warrant was issued. And the operation started more than 2Hrs ago and he hasn’t been arrested yet. This can only mean a few things
– He is guilty or he is sure that there is no way he can prove his innocence to the court.
– He is too arrogant and thinks he is above the law
– He is the godman right? No one can question him apart from the gods themselves.
No matter what the reasons are, I still can’t get around the fact or the news that he was using his devotees as a human shield to prevent police from arresting him.
Who is to blame?
Whose fault is it that the godmen have such high positions in the country? I don’t deny the fault of the godman, but what about the disciples or the followers? Why would a godman have about 10,000 followers who have to evacuated on the previous day? I understand that we are all free to follow whichever belief we want to but what about this blind faith? Are we so weak as individuals that we need to look outside for help? Are we so poorly educated that we are incapable of handling our lives? What is about giving up the responsibility of your problems to either a god man or a god himself? What are we here for? Are we that weak that we cannot solve our own problems? Are we so incapable? I somehow refuse to believe so.
The solution?
Arrest this godman or the goddamn man! No one is above the law and no one can be. We have skipped through enough laws, people have shown how powerful or influential they are, people have started living in impunity, there is no fear or morale of governance. If that was the case, how different are we from autocracy? No one has the right to be above someone else, whether it is a godman or a god’s direct disciple. We are country of people and people are of prime importance, not just one person!
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Vinay you voiced my sentiments here.
This is really far from my conscious mind that how people start following a human-being as a god. What profit do these followers get after doing such things? Do they really feel relaxed? Do they really get rid of all pain and concerns of their respective lives? Is this really so simple? This is such a shame that we are witnessing such nonsense. Government is not god, it cannot do everything. It can impose law and order but certainly cannot change the thought process. I am completely agree with shweta, We are the people to blame for. We give such idiots liberty to rule.
Mine too Priyashi, I wonder if it is that easy to brainwash a few people. A human god! Aptly stated priyashi, it is giving full reins to the idiots to make a ruling!
Most of these so-called godmen and women are frauds. Vast majority of their followers are gullible people who can be fooled or exploited easily in the name of gods and sanctity.
I agree Matheikal, I believe there has been a huge history and a line of such people who have exploited the innocence, emotions and the real essence of the simpletons in the name of divinity. Call it farce, stupidity, insanity, hypocrisy.. All of these words and a lot more too which make perfect sense here..
Oo I forgot sanctimonious :D :)
Well I’m not a sympathizer of Rampal but also not happy with egoistical approach of the Judge. I agree that no one should be above the law not even judges.
Well I understand that it’s a common practice to use medical grounds to avoid arrest but in that case a judge cannot be partial with this prejudice. A judge is not a doctor. He cannot simply reject any medical report without having any evidence of its forgery. If he has any suspicion he can order to form a fresh medical team to check the accused whether he is able to come to court premise or not. He cannot simply issue a non-bailable warrant and ask the police to bring him from ICU. Ok, the accused is not admitted to ICU but hospitalized and as per his doctor’s advice he cannot go to court. If in that case police apply force to bring him before the judge and he died in midway then who is responsible for his death? Should a murder case not be instituted against that judge who rejected the medical record without any ground and issued that order?
Well if he considered that the medical report was forged, why didn’t he start any proceeding against those doctors who prepared that medical report? Moreover, the doctors team who gave the report was constituted by Commissioner of Police to check the medical status of accused.
Ravish whenever someone accused is being arrested by police for any purpose, it is there duty to do the medical of the same and then only they decide if he is being able to take him to the court or not. Did this person give that chance to police? Instead he killed 6 innocent ladies and one child as well…
Well Alok I’ve already said that I’m not his supporter; so, I ain’t gonna defend him. But as far as your question is concerned, yes a medical board of government doctors was constituted by Commissioner of Police to check the medical status of him and the same board recommended that he wasn’t fit to produce. This report was submitted by prosecution not his defence lawyers. What he did after that is absolutely wrong but what that judge did could also not be justified as right under the law.
Ravish, maybe there is a point here. Maybe the judge violated the right and went ahead with his gut anyway. But I think a lot of them have made a parody of the legal system, finding loopholes in the name of medical incapability and this is not the first case and unfortunately this might not be the last one as well. But I really do think the move by the judge was justified considering his serial absence for the earlier court requirements on multiple occasions numbering to 43. What is the court to do when it sees such blatant disregard for the laws?
Well Vinay, you’re right that a lot of persons are making parody of the legal system. And as I see, that judge is not different than others but one of them. You’re right again that this isn’t gonna the last one where someone tried to take the advantage of loopholes in the name of medical incapability. But it doesn’t mean that in cases like this judges start the tradition of completely ignoring the provisions of law and start taking decisions from their gut feeling. If you think that what the Judge did was right then don’t you think it’s better to drop the legal system prevailing in this country and allow judges to deliver judgments on the basis of their gut feelings?
I would definitely say No Ravish. The judge did not make a parody of the system, he transcended it. I would go to the extent of saying that he realized that the results were more important than the procedures. I am sure that if he stuck to the procedures, this man would never have been brought to the court and esp a serial defaulter certainly does need to be told that he is not above the law. And if people think that the judge has gone overboard, I am sure that there will be a Public interest case against him. But in the larger frame of things and the larger good, the judge has my full support and vote.
Well Vinay, Judges are not liable to Public Interest Case against them but Impeachment procedure inside Parliament. To start impeachment proceedings against a judge needs 2/3 of majority inside a house. And you can imagine the situation… Do you think all judges are dry honest? Well my point is no doubt he had good intention but there are also who don’t have good intentions; who can quote this order and deliver judgments according to their Malafide Will irrespective of the evidences produced before him. I believe we should not give someone more than enough power so that he become unstoppable when start to misuse it. Take the case of Hitler. As I see in larger frame, things aren’t good.
Ravish I am not suggesting that every judge is a clean person nor is any individual. I do agree that there is an impeachment process and the parliament is not going to allow someone to scot free when they make a visible mistake which has a strong impact. And the impeachment process is for removal, it is not for a disciplinary action against someone.
And Ravish, there is no referendum happening for a free will of the judge and there never will be. There are adequate number of checks and balances and sometimes they have to be transcended because the situation demands it. If we go by your premise, then it is fair to leave a perpetrator of serious crimes to go free just cos he can pull a few strings and call for reasons not to appear in front of the court? And I am trying to remind again, it was not one case, it was 43 of them. Which genuine person would have that? And which genuine person would use the devotees as a human shield?
And I think it is an exaggerated comparison of free will exercised here to what you are comparing to. And no one is given the additional power. I am sure that the judge would have done it in consultation and would have taken a few considerations as well before taking an extreme measure. It will be very naive to think that the judge took a decision on free will without any considerations.
Well Vinay, the same logic was applied at the time of starting Police Encounters. The intention behind the concept was good to kill the Mafias and Terrorists who took the advantage of loopholes of legal system but what happened later? You too know how it is still being misused? TADA was imposed for the same reason to check terrorism but it was later revoked due to its extensive misuse. A weapon is neutral; whether it is used for good or bad depends upon the hands which are using it. I’m only worried of delivering judgments from guts ignoring the submitted evidences. This trend is not good in long run as encounters.
I ain’t advocating to leave a perpetrator of serious crimes to go free. I’m saying to do it in right manner without losing one’s temper and patience. And it could be done.
Judges are also human. They too have human feelings and emotions and sometimes they too overpowered by them. Let me give you some examples, a few days ago I heard a statement of Supreme Court Judge who said “If I were the Dictator of India, I’d have made Bhagwad Geeta Compulsory in schools” What kind of statement is this? Should a judge give this type of statement in public forum? What about the understanding on Homosexual Issue? It is scientifically proven fact worldwide that homosexual is a biological thing and is beyond the will of individual. But what is the understanding of a few judges in India? They considered it as an intentional crime.
Ravish simply stated you are comparing apples and oranges here and the argument is taking a one sided approach. I am afraid this is going nowhere and I do not want to sound it like a debate. Honestly I think this debate is reaching a dead end with the comparison of a dictatorship to a move made on discretion when the issue is still about bringing a man to justice. There are a lot of other factors which come into play here than blaming of the judge. If it is a transgression of his powers, I am sure an adequate move will be in order. But at this moment, there is something more important and takes precedence and the rest can be dealt later. I am sure if this move was not made, the man would not have been brought to the court at all and he would have found more reasons to move around free. I think that certainly takes precedence here.
hehehe………..
Vinay, you have rightly said that the argument is taking a one sided approach. A glass is never half-full alone; it is at the same time half-empty too but you are trying to prove that the aspect of half-full is only truth. Well Friend, what you are saying is one aspect of the incidence. So, I’m stating its another aspect. I ain’t saying that your interpretation is incorrect or wrong. I’m just saying that here is an another aspect of looking at it. That’s it. :D
Ravish quoting from Modi’s speech a couple of days ago, laws are existent to make life simpler but when people use it as an excuse, I think the bigger question is how the law is used and what is it used for. I seriously do not find any lapse of judgement on the judge’s behalf. What was done was completely necessary and rightly so.. And the man’s actions proved how right he was. More than anything else, the procedure and the law would just keep delaying everything in this process and this too would be a pending case in the judicial log without any solution if he waited to follow every single procedure to the letter. Sometimes it does become essential to go beyond it.
Ravish, I think it was a much necessary approach by the judge for this case. He had 43 non appearances in front of the court! Not one or 2 but 43 of them, How would a judge believe a medical ground as a genuine case in case of a series defaulter like him?
Also the same man was found using devotees as a human shield to prevent arrest. It just rouses one question for me – Does a genuine or an honest person need to go through so much of an effort? I think the action of the judge was completely justified..
You asked “How would a judge believe a medical ground as a genuine case in case of a series defaulter like him?” My answer is not by becoming a doctor himself but by taking the opinions of other doctors whom he could trust. Well for detail see my reply in Alok’s section.
Ravish, I still don’t think this man deserved that extra caution. When someone at this level seems to find the loopholes of the system and finds ways to escape, I think it does become necessary to take a proactive decision which I believe the judge did in this case. If we look at the larger issue, i think it was still about bringing the wrong doer to justice. Maybe the step taken was a little extreme and if it was wrong, it would have been proved and the judge would have to pay his price or maybe he will be sued later. But if you look at the broader frame of things, the law still survives. I believe it is more about the final result and the notion behind it than the procedures sometimes and a man at that stature of a judge was sincerely right in taking that call.
Who is talking about this man! I’ve serious concern regarding larger issues. How one gonna decide whether one is wrong doer or not – as per the provisions of law or gut feeling? As I see, law doesn’t survive but sixth sense. Well dear, end is right; it doesn’t imply that means were also right. But when means are right then end will have to be right. The first one is a easy step which feels good in beginning but have harsh consequences in the end. The second step looks impossible in the beginning but gives ultimate success in the end. Most people do not succeed in their efforts because they choose first option. There is no short cuts of success or justice.
Ravish an isolated issue will not become a generic issue and the legal system is fairly protected for anything like that to happen. And it is not about sixth sense, it is about looking at the existing facts. I think there are two aspects to a decision – The purpose and the result. Sometimes it becomes a little hard to focus on every detail as to how something is done and rightly so and that is where discretion comes into play. I agree that there is no short cut to justice and there is no shortcut to an outcome as well. Sometimes harsh decisions have to be taken and they will make sense in the end and in this case I honestly think it does.
And I thought we were talking about this issue here, an isolated one which may or will not have any bearing to the broader one..
In my first comment I cleared that I was talking in general and I’m not a supporter of Rampal.
Well, that is the difference between leader & commoner. Everything is not easy. It is said when there is a will, there is a way. To transcend law is very easy but to give an ideal obeying the law is a tough task and we expect judges to have leadership qualities not of a commoner. As I see, it isn’t a harsh decision but an easy available one.
Who is to blame….well people – us – illiteracy is to be blamed, strong and blind inclination towards religion is to be blamed. We make them powerful and give them a right to exploit us.
Well said Shweta, You’re absolutely right; it is only WE who give others the right to exploit us. But I don’t think literacy play any role in it. It is the vacuum within us which is responsible. Blind inclination is always wrong whether it is towards religion or science. :)
joining your sentences here it is only WE who give others the right to exploit us. It is the vacuum within us which is responsible. These truly make sense to me :)
Absolutely true Shweta.. I think it is only the people who have given him that larger than life image. I do not understand the need and necessity for a demigod who magically solves someone’s problems. Each individual is very well equipped to solve his/her own problems in life and we all have some amazing people around us to provide us guidance and help when needed. The dependence on an external factor and a person like this is an extremely baffling one..
I really did not understand why the hell is the state government giving him so much chances. If some of the fools are surrounding him, I guess police should use the force harshly and put them all behind the bar to get him…But yes it is the same media which will then criticize them only….
Well Alok, no one is intelligent every moment of his life. We too act as fools sometimes and if someone……….. Think over it :)
Well Ravish, I can understand your aggression, but buddy do tell me one thing, forming an illegal army, and fighting against your own nation is good or bad? What about those illiterate and innocent people who were being forced to stay in the Ashram? Who is responsible for those? I really don’t understand if he was so ill that he couldn’t even attend the court for one session?
No, it was all drama. I do agree that no one is intelligent every moment of his/her life and we too acts as fools sometime, but believe me buddy whatever happened there was not at all be supported by us. If we are supporting him, it simply means by someway some other people will once again blackmail our government in future as well.
I am sorry if my statement hurt you, but to be very frank I will support the toughest judgement against that so called Sant Rampal and his army…
Well Alok whatever you do with shrewd Rampal or his armed force I don’t care but why innocent fools? :)
Well Ravish, what will you say about it:
इससे पहले बुधवार की रात रामपाल को गिरफ्तार किए जाने के बाद जरूरी मेडिकल जांच के लिए ऐम्बुलेंस से पंचकूला के सेक्टर 6 स्थित सदर अस्पताल ले जाया गया, जहां उन्हें पूरी तरह से ठीक करार दिया गया। गौरतलब है कि अवमानना के मामले में अदालत में उपस्थित होने से इनकार करने वाले 63 साल के रामपाल दावा कर रहे थे कि वह बीमार है और उन्हें हिसार के बरवाला में सतलोक आश्रम से दो सप्ताह तक चले गतिरोध के बाद गिरफ्तार किया गया था।
Taken from Navbharattimes.com
Well Alok, it’s absolutely fine. I wasn’t contradicting you that time and not now. :) I was just saying that the earlier medical report was also of police which was rejected without having any second opinion from experts of medical field. Now, the second opinion has come, I expect the judge to confiscate the medical practitioner license of those doctors who manufactured the forged medical report as per the provisions of law.
True Alok. I think it is that carelessness about both the laws and the policing force in the country. It sends out such a bad message to see that someone tries to stay ahead of it and take everything else for granted. Sometimes the use of force is completely justified and looking at the proceedings so far, I guess this is one such case..